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My thought is that the best method is to mention them here, but create a separate page in which to discuss them further. That would give the space to properly note the various cars, artists, etc. without cluttering up this page excessively. -- The BMW cars are of importance as they reflect one aspect of the spectrum- very famous professional artists have used art cars as a medium. Ideally the article should have illustrations from the entire spectrum for example- . truly visionary artcars (guys in the desert-religious folk) Ordinary folk who have never thought of exhibiting the pre event artcar culture there are many of these.(my sticker car was pre event culture I had never been to or seen an event or an artcar ever...) .Cars designed at events (school project cars some very famous ones from houston) .Cars designed specifically to be exhibited never or rarely driven (aero car for example) . Cars desined by professional artists (Flutter Bug) Cars desinged to sell things and for marketing (founding fathers car is designed to market a book by Dr. Bob Heronimous in Baltimore last year, A famous truck artcar was designed to sell artistic clocks in Baltimroe and others are designed to be sets to display and sell folk art.) Other cars are just seen on the streets and driver owners are told : he our car is art. So when the article is "art car" it should be inclusive and representative of the entire art car world. Complex but fun! I think this would aid the reader who wants to get a grasp of what the potentials are and to understand all which now fits under the heading "art car" in the world. This has evovled quite a bit over the past 50 years. Have fun! Conrad Jay Blade 14:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the tone of this article. It feels a bit value-laden and rambling -- particularly in slangy journalistic phrases such as "'Cartistry' truly attained unstoppable momentum as a social and artistic movement in the 1990s"
I'm not sure it would be improved by being made more formal, but I do get the feeling that it needs to be edited. It also appears to contradict itself in a few minor but irritating ways.
Any objections? Theoh 11:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. When I found it it was a real mess (lots of vanity entries and irrelevant garbage). I've been slowly working on bringing it back to some form of sanity but I wouldn't mind help. Incidentally I've been involved in the artcar community for about 7 years and I've never heard the terms "cartists" or "cartistry" used, nor have I seen it in any other article on the topic. Plymouths 15:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok first of all there should not be an "overview" section below the "contents" section - the section above "contents" is supposed to be the overview! And there's a LOT of overlap in what's said there, in the "artistic styles" section and in the "history" section (which isn't really history in the standard sense). Also OMG REFERENCES!! I don't know why the "articles without references" tag went away - it still doesn't have references. A lot of the links at the bottom could be turned into a references section but so far they're not. Plymouths 15:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
At this time the article clearly favors the cars mentioned by only one author Harrod Blank. These are well known cars however the article is not entitled "well known art cars" it is Art Cars. There are other ways art cars can become well known for example: The cable television program Monster Garage featured all of my cars in an entire episode. Therefore the are "well known" the same is true of books. Three of my cars are in books (one is in one of Harrod's Books) that makes them well known. Another problem in this area is that the cars featured seem to be all from the West Coast. An important aspect of the recent development of the art car world (and it is not a movement which is a bit more formal) is that there are now many cars on the east coast. Something my cars illustrate. Another important aspect of the artcar world is that most of the art cars on the road today are ordinary i.e. not famous. Additionally most major festivals will accept any entry providing it is an art car. Houston prides itself on being "everyones artcar parade" Artscape in Baltimore also accepts every entry except last year when it did not accept gas powered vehicles. Therefore the article should recognize that the art car world is very much a world for every one and every car. The "important ones" are in the minority and not reflective of the entire artcar world. As this is an evolving and flexible medium I suggest that the article asks that photos of artcars be submitted and that they be inserted from time to time in rotation. There can be a section on "very well known artcars" and perhaps on "prize winners" but there should be a few of ordinary cars as well as truly visionary works which are out of the mainstream and as yet not recognized.....just a thought. I would think that if you don't wish to mention all of my cars....with the exception of the soul car are well known.....you should include the Handy car (Epicentral Shrine of the Helping Hand Vehicular) which has appeared on national television,local television features,local and national media, a book, voice of America television, news articles, and won first prize at houston in the daily driver category. You will find information and photos which you can use at: http://www.geocities.com/artcars/handyweb.html It is a difficult job but an article on Art Cars should reflect the wide range of Art Cars out there and not just famous ones. The reader should get a sense that the artcar world reflects a spectrum of purposes, interests and orientations which is open to all who create art cars. I appreciate your dedication to this article keep up the good work! Conrad Jay Blade 14:16, 23 January 2007
There are SEVERAL HUNDRED artcars that are prizewinners. We don't have room for all of them. Personally I'd like to entirely get rid of the "notable art cars" section - it junks up the article. When I first found this article it was a collection of vanity links - people who created wikipedia entries for the sole purpose of adding their cars to the list. Which is approximately what you did. And even if some of your cars are notable you don't get YOUR OWN SPECIAL SECTION. See Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not Also, wikipedia discourages autobiography. Plymouths 14:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Good Point. This is one of the new aspects of the growing artcar world. When first there were a few then a book full then several books filled.....now thousands....I think the main point is to characterize the entire artcar world by citing an example of each major category. But simply citing lack of signifcance for removing is not appropriate as the cars added were significant. My position is that one car per category should be the limit. So why not remove all of them. We can all build some sort of case for significance. Also reference to individuals is also not really on topic. There are too many outstanding individuals these days too. As for the use of Harrod well I would say ok but only if the car is famous in three references in addition to Harrod's work. His is one view. Rotating images and citations may also be helpful in solving this. I think one thing that this article can do is help define the major categories of art car. They never will be exact or hard but they are a good way to describe a spectrum. Categrories should be found for:
. Cartists: totally independent not formal (have to be told they are cartists)The most formal of Visionary artists.(out in the desert etc.... . Cartists that enter events that formalize their inclusion 3. Cartists that do not drive daily (artworks that are only exhibited that is never drove daily) . Cartists that design and build cars for purposes other than exhibition that is self marketing, to make money, to pay travel bils for vacations, to market products, to rent to movie makers. . Cartists who create a car as an event or educational mission
Actually maybe categories is not good maybe modes.....is better as cars can move from one to another.
Also- getting away from hero worship etc....cars should be described as reflections of techniques- glued on stuff, foam insulation, temporary, painted, interactive, totally transformed (say into a hippo)mosaic....(this lets the article have many examples of car images without being mini biographies of individuals)
In addition to technology and techniques purpose of the car- the mission statement -artistic:aesthetic -political or point of view -religious shrine -stage -humor -Project-group work (assignment) -fantasy
The categories are not complete but as an idea of what can be done.... One wa of handling indivdual artists is to link to their web page or transfer the information from this article to other articals about specific individuals....Probably a good idea as there are famous cartists just like people in other fields. This article could be linked to them....Harrod for example should have his own article.....that way information will be not lost and can be linked in.
A wonder! Conrad Jay Blade 15:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I did actually intend to make the "construction and decoration" techniques more full of examples, but I need more public domain pictures. I looked through my recent event pictures and didn't find any good ones. Plymouths 15:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
don't know about quality but I have probably too many on line feel free just cite source in small print etc...if convenient..... this is a start...http://www.geocities.com/artcars/hutmanartcars.html
-for temporary see magnet truck, for glued on handy, painted-someday the frogs will inherit the earth aka party car....all have brass instruments/music some have interactive dimension.....whatever...I would also try the orange show as they have photos of allmost all the participants I think I signed a waver so permission should be able to be obtained from the orange show foundation itself...doesnt hurt to ask... Conrad Jay Blade.

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